“It’s not a strawman because I wasn’t reducing your argument to an illogical version of it nor was I morphing it into something else. I never said that you were arguing for the legalization of alcohol. What I’m saying is that your calling for tattoos to be deemed lawful just because it’s a personal choice that doesn’t effect other people is exactly analogous to the argument that alcohol should be legalized for the same reasons.”

Nope, it was a strawman because you strung it up and attacked it instead of attacking my original position, that tattooing should be legalized. It is very different, as I demonstrated.

“Which is all the more reason to ban these substances, but it isn’t necessarily the primary reason for doing so. You see, an argument can also be made that a few drinks here and there aren’t really detrimental to your health at all, so it should be fine. In actuality, the fact that alcohol is Haram according to Islam DOES indeed play a significant role for it being prohibited by law, all health risks aside.”

Agreed, but I only brought it up to highlight the staggering differences between the legalization of certain substances and something as personal as modifying your own body. Yes, perhaps alcohol can be taken in moderation and without negative consequences to the public, I just want to highlight that the possibility for negative consequences EXISTS, while for tattooing, there are NONE. It is as personal a choice as liposuction, breast implants, collagen injections and nose modification; a bit horrible IMO but still a person’s choice and freely allowable in Kuwait DESPITE them being explicitly haram.

My point: it is COMPLETELY personal, which I’m guessing you’re saying is no grounds for legalization, right? Alright, lets move on to the haram in Sharia argument

“Yes, it definitely is arbitrary. But AFTER the decision has been made to ban something JUST because it happens to be Islamically impermissible, you can’t complain that it’s wrong or unconstitutional because the constitution itself sanctions it.”

I have not complained that it was unconstitutional, but I can see many a reason why it’s wrong.

“So in summary, the status of being haram according to Islam is a sufficient reason for prohibtting anything by law in the state of Kuwait because the constitution allows it by virtue of including sharia law as a primary source of legislation, even if arbitrarily implemented.”

Agreed. It is sufficient, but DOES NOT oblige us by default to apply such a law, otherwise why are there many Sharia laws not being implemented?

“I, being a Muslim who believes in the Qur’an and the Sunnah 100%, obviously cannot agree with this. I’m not willing to substitute man-made laws for divinely revealed laws, as I’m sure anyone who sincerely believes in Islam wouldn’t (it would be self-contradictory otherwise).”

I, being a Kuwaiti, respectfully disagree. Divine laws revealed by an omniscient being, but rather unfortunately revealed to us mere humans. All those laws were and are subject to the varied interpretation of many different people, for which there is ample evidence of change throughout the years as societal standards changed.

So you are actually not always obeying the divine instructions %100 to the letter, a lot of the time you are following the spirit of the instructions. It is in that way that many Muslims believe in the Quran and Sunnah %100 and just as sincerely as you do, just that they have a different take on it.

Kuwaiti society is composed of many Muslims with their own take on Islam. I know that my Shia friends disagree with my Sunni friends a LOT on some key aspects of Quran and Sunnah. Sincere Muslims all and firm believers in Quran and Sunnah, btw, and all who might vote for a different take on Sharia law, or it’s pervasiveness in our laws and regulations.

“Fear is the mother of morality” – F.Nietzsche

In that case, you have my appologies, but I still stand by my points.

“You worry about tatooes, when half the moslems of the arab world are fighting, killing, torturing, raping,and pillaging. You wanna talk about Halal and haram in this context,. I guess not, cause Arabs have no sense of unity or a common cause that ties together, except for a religion and a language, which is the main source of their conflicts. So you wanna waste more time on a simple issue like tattoos you can go on till eternity if you believe this will make you shine as a moslem, but there are more serious issues in this world where your input is needed such as, Human Right Violation, Slavery, Rape, Women Abuse, Drug Abuse, Stealing, Lying and Chetaing all taking place as we speak within this country, and you wanna keep arguing on this issue.”

And why do you think we can’t deal with those isses you pointed out AND this one (tattoos) simultaneously? What is the contradiction between addressing all of those major issues and minor issues at the same time? I’d love to hear this. Is dropping a few comments on the internet regarding something I have an opinion about supposed to take months, for example? I don’t know about you but I can multitask just fine.

“Dont be a loud mouth, get out there and do something about it.”

How does voicing my honest opinion make me a loud mouth? Or do you just say that because I disagree with you?

lol, do something about it like what? The problem has already been dealt with (store no longer exists in case you haven’t noticed), all because of “loud mouths” like Sheikh Nabeel.

“Strawman. I have not argued for legalizing alcohol, and it does not relate to legalizing tattoo parlors at all.”

It’s not a strawman because I wasn’t reducing your argument to an illogical version of it nor was I morphing it into something else. I never said that you were arguing for the legalization of alcohol. What I’m saying is that your calling for tattoos to be deemed lawful just because it’s a personal choice that doesn’t effect other people is exactly analogous to the argument that alcohol should be legalized for the same reasons.

“First off, legalizing alcohol would affect the society on a large scale, and it has a scientifically proven harm to the individual and society: kidney failure, violence, DUI, it’s a long list. The legality of certain drugs does not stop at the individual level, and an argument can be made that they affect society as a whole. In fact, there is excellent historical evidence that they do (see: China being flooded with opium by the English.)”

Which is all the more reason to ban these substances, but it isn’t necessarily the primary reason for doing so. You see, an argument can also be made that a few drinks here and there aren’t really detrimental to your health at all, so it should be fine. In actuality, the fact that alcohol is Haram according to Islam DOES indeed play a significant role for it being prohibited by law, all health risks aside.

“If people decide they want to inject metallics into their skin, it is their option. It is not revealing like nudity, which may offend people, and it is certainly not harmful to whole of society as some drugs can be. It is is, indeed, their personal choice. Their is no evidence, be it scientific or historical, that it affects the society on the whole.”

And I’m telling you that it doesn’t have to be harmful for it to be illegal. The fact that it’s Haram is more than enough. Strip clubs don’t hurt anyone, they are nevertheless STILL illegal for no reason other than being Islamically impermissible.

“It is A primary source, not THE primary source. I agree with you completely that it is arbitrary, and I guess in this case we’ll agree to disagree in which direction they should move: towards more Sharia integration, or less.”

Yes, it definitely is arbitrary. But AFTER the decision has been made to ban something JUST because it happens to be Islamically impermissible, you can’t complain that it’s wrong or unconstitutional because the constitution itself sanctions it.

So in summary, the status of being haram according to Islam is a sufficient reason for prohibtting anything by law in the state of Kuwait because the constitution allows it by virtue of including sharia law as a primary source of legislation, even if arbitrarily implemented.

“I say move away from Sharia where individual rights are concerned, because it is the individual who is ultimately responsible for his fate, be it heaven or hell. No government can force its citizens into being righteous, and if we go down that path we’ll have to instate something similar to Saudi Arabia’s system, which I think is not compatible with life in Kuwait.”

I, being a Muslim who believes in the Qur’an and the Sunnah 100%, obviously cannot agree with this. I’m not willing to substitute man-made laws for divinely revealed laws, as I’m sure anyone who sincerely believes in Islam wouldn’t (it would be self-contradictory otherwise).

“Not meant for me, but I have to reply. I’ve seen this “GTFO if u dont like it!” thing brought it in every forum of ever possible nationality, and it is horrible in every possible way. Might apply to expats, but certainly not to the citizens of the country who love it dearly, and would love to correct any mistakes it might be committing, weather that citizen in question is conservative, liberal, etc. That’s what freedom of speech and political action is for.”

Tell it to the guy I was replying to.

“By that logic, we should also legalize alcohol. I’m sure you see why this argument fails.”

Strawman. I have not argued for legalizing alcohol, and it does not relate to legalizing tattoo parlors at all. First off, legalizing alcohol would affect the society on a large scale, and it has a scientifically proven harm to the individual and society: kidney failure, violence, DUI, it’s a long list. The legality of certain drugs does not stop at the individual level, and an argument can be made that they affect society as a whole. In fact, there is excellent historical evidence that they do (see: China being flooded with opium by the English.)

If people decide they want to inject metallics into their skin, it is their option. It is not revealing like nudity, which may offend people, and it is certainly not harmful to whole of society as some drugs can be. It is is, indeed, their personal choice. Their is no evidence, be it scientific or historical, that it affects the society on the whole.

“The problem is, sharia IS a primary source from which law is derrived according to the constitution, so don’t make it seem as if it were a foreign concept. True, not ALL of sharia is implemented in Kuwait, and what is implemented does seem to be decided arbitrarily by the government and the parliament, but this is exactly the case here.”

It is A primary source, not THE primary source. I agree with you completely that it is arbitrary, and I guess in this case we’ll agree to disagree in which direction they should move: towards more Sharia integration, or less.

I say move away from Sharia where individual rights are concerned, because it is the individual who is ultimately responsible for his fate, be it heaven or hell. No government can force its citizens into being righteous, and if we go down that path we’ll have to instate something similar to Saudi Arabia’s system, which I think is not compatible with life in Kuwait.

“Likewise, the people for them can also GTFO and go crying to some kafir country where they don’t have to worry about this type of thing.”

Not meant for me, but I have to reply. I’ve seen this “GTFO if u dont like it!” thing brought it in every forum of ever possible nationality, and it is horrible in every possible way. Might apply to expats, but certainly not to the citizens of the country who love it dearly, and would love to correct any mistakes it might be committing, weather that citizen in question is conservative, liberal, etc. That’s what freedom of speech and political action is for.

Assalamu alaikum wa rahmat Allah wa barakatuh,

“Agree with Mark d. Kuwait is still under enormous influence from Saudi and the US (who of course doesnt give 2 cents’ worth about human rights as long as we provide them with a strategic military location for their troops).”

I call it being under the influence of Islam.

“On the religion issue, Muslims around the world (and i am one of them) should resist the temptation to give lessons to everyone else. We are not holier than everyone else. Let us mind our freakin’ business and concentrate on being good to other people and leaving a positive trace on this planet.”

The problem is that what you want us to do is at odds with what the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) actually commanded. He, peace and blessings be upon him, said: “”Whoever amongst you sees an evil, he must change it with his hand; if he is unable to do so, then with his tongue; and if he is unable to do so, then with his heart; and that is the weakest form of Faith.”

Check this out for more: http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/hadeeth/riyad/00/chap023.htm

“I’d love to see how the writer of the article changes the lives of other people for the better by giving away some of his money, cars, or just time to volunteer, instead of bitching and then indulging in pleasure that excess money brings
”

Bro, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Sheikh Nabeel changes lives and has immensly effected countless people. Have you ever seen any of his lectures? He also happens to be one of the most outspoken people on the bedoon situation in Kuwait, so there’s really not much to criticize him about in that department.

“Hellraiser:
i saw a guy with a girl near a Harley the other day, that is also haram, now bikes should be banned from Kuwait too.
I saw a girl drinking coke in a mini skirt. Lets ban Coke from Kuwait too.”

OK, I don’t see anyone making this argument. What you’re doing here is called a straw man fallacy. No one ever made the illogical association between riding bikes and necessarily having women hopping on or that drinking coke necessitates wearing revealing clothing. You made all of that up.

“who gives a fuck if tattoos are haram? they don’t hurt anybody and can be absolutely beautiful.”

Some people think that thong bikkinis are “absolutely” beautiful, but that’s called indecent exporsue and is punishable BY LAW.

The problem is that you people are making the false assumption that something needs to hurt someone else for it to be banned, which is absolutely false. Drugs and alcohol don’t directly harm people other than the person taking them, but they are in fact illegal. Who defines what’s legal and what’s not? Obviously the government and the parliament based on the constitution, and the constitution happens to take Islamic law into consideration. It’s really not that difficult to grasp.

“also tattoos are NOT illegal in Kuwait only tattoo parlours so the ppl against them can GTFO of kuwait and go crying back to KSA.”

Likewise, the people for them can also GTFO and go crying to some kafir country where they don’t have to worry about this type of thing.